Talk:People who made it into the news as a spanker or spankee

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I'd recommend that we only include people who really made it into the news, and not people who just made it into blogs etc. Spankart 14:12, 30 March 2008 (BST)

Is this whole thing on-topic as part of a BDSM wiki? Seems to be buying into the whole celebrity culture thing that we must obsess about people in the news and the creation of articles rather arbitrarily - especially about contemporary 16 and 17 year olds.
RobM 02:10, 30 June 2009 (BST)
it's on topic due to the spanko interest in 'startles' --Roguebfl (talk) 05:15, 30 June 2009 (BST)
I wonder if you don't over estimate the number of people interested in this article as compared to the number like me seeing it as repeating the mistakes of the past to get too bogged down on a sexual fetish site with having articles about contemporary 17yo's who have NOTHING to do with the 'scene' whatsoever. In fifty years there might be historical interest. In the mean time I worry that articles are being created about people with zero interest in being part of a BDSM site - unlike artists or authors they havn't done anything that shows an interest in spanking or anything that passes 'voluntary'. RobM 13:53, 30 June 2009 (BST)
Irreverent. For it to be relevant, this wiki needs to have a position on wither or not it is a mistake, we do not have any such position. we acknowledge people have an opinion, if relevant to an article will present it that people do have such an opinion with out judging wither the opinion is wright or wrong. See Spanking Art:Point of view and Spanking Art:Nonviolence policy.
News articles are in the public view. When an artist wither of the visual or written media makes a piece uses such public view knowledge in determine wither or not their scenario is believable. --Roguebfl (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2009 (BST)
Irreverent? Anyway, I mostly agree with Rob here. I don't know why we need to have a position about whether or not "it" is a mistake as that sentence made little sense. However, this wiki calls itself the Spanking Art Wiki and real life punishments have little to do with art. Candice Critic 21:39, 30 June 2009 (BST)
If I had to sum it up in another salient point; Would a bondage wiki have pages dedicated to hostages in beiruit or the lebenon or Iraq because they'd been chained to radiators or handcuffed for periods lasting five years?
I really, really feel deeply that these articles serve no purpose on an adult fetish site, are actually repeating the mistakes of the past regarding boyscouts in seeming to think that just because its a neutral article that is correct in all technical aspects all other details such as whether its right to name minors who are as much victims as participants are dismissed as irrelevent.
Taste and decency are never irrelevent - there is no historical interest in these punishments. There is a world of difference bertween an article describing the use of a cat'o'ninetails in the Royal Navy at the turn of the 19th century - there is none in the paddling of a 17yo girl on a BDSM site. Especially when we MAKE an article about her, naming the girl like she's a celebrity? A celebrity? Of the BDSM scene? Is she a hero perhaps, a great person of note? Unlike artists and authors I go back to my last post still not answered; She didn't volunteer to be part of the BDSM scene so why should a contemporary teenage girl amongst others have an article on a fetish site? RobM 02:22, 1 July 2009 (BST)

No, this is not a BDSM wiki, and it is not an adult wiki. And yes, it is a wiki on spanking art, but that includes mainstream spanking art no less than "erotic" spanking art. BDSM related articles are welcome here because they overlap with our topic -- for example, a ball gag is not directly related to spanking art, BUT it might be featured in a spanking drawing or story, and that's why we should allow an article on such a thing so people can look it up and find the background information. We basically permit any article that can also be found on Wikipedia -- if you can show that there is some relation, even if indirect and very remotely, to our topic (e.g. plastic or pigtails). For the same reason, I think we should permit articles on anything that has to do with real life spanking, whether erotic or judicial, fun or abusive, consensual or nonconsensual, military, school, prison, legal or illegal -- as long as these articles are written properly according to our encyclopedic standards, such as described on Spanking Art:Legal terms, Spanking Art:Conventions, Spanking Art:Point of view, and Spanking Art:Nonviolence policy. We should try to be as neutral as possible and avoid writing from a BDSM bias, an erotic bias, a fiction bias, or any other bias. As I see it, this includes that we talk about negative, abusive and criminal things and cases (e.g. Elizabeth Brownrigg or Andreas Dippold) with the same neutrality as we talk about, say, a celebrated spanking actress or author. Michael P. Fay seems to be relevant to me because his case has spawned such a great public debate about corporal punishment. Frankly, I don't think such articles are very important here because their relation to spanking art is remote indeed. But I would not generally discourage or forbid articles on them.

However I completely agree with RobM that whenever we have a sensitive piece of information, such as the case of a contemporary real life crime victim or a criminal, we should restrict ourselves to write only as much as is appropriate, following the codes of conduct of good journalism that protect such people's privacy as much as possible. Perhaps we should sum up such rules in the page Spanking Art:Privacy policy which is linked from the bottom of every page. --Spankart (talk) 08:12, 1 July 2009 (BST)

While I agree we need to be sensitive with private information. But I reject the rest of RobM's point as it suggests we take an anti-spanking stance rater the a NPOV stance. Which would make this site Hostile first to members that hold pro-spanking point of view, then would become hostile to those that like X/m and X/f, as has happened to other spanking related sites that have gone that route, which would comprises our encyclopedic goals. --Roguebfl (talk) 14:42, 1 July 2009 (BST)
Well,I must admit I in turn reject any concept that this is not an adult site. It may not be a BDSM site as I put it and can rephrase, but this is very definately a fetish site. Spanking is a fetish. This whole Wiki is focused on that fetish. It is indeed focused upon it from a NPOV but nevertheless this is an adult site. Regardless of how NPOV any article is, the reality remains that it exists on an adult site - a Wiki to which 100% of all inlinks come from adult sites, adult blogs by adult entertainers and art pages of erotic artists and illustrators. I maintain that having articles on named contemporary individuals with zero personal interest in the fetish for which this site is devoted (Spanking) and links to news/media articles which often have their faces, cities and other pertinent details is both unwise and drifting from the appropriate. I'm not arguing that creating these article might be valid. I'm arguing its not appropriate to glorify contemporary minors with such a passive role. They did not seek to become renowned for being spanked, they did not seek fame and riches for being spanked and unless seriously bitten by the American Idol bug I doubt they thought being in the papers with this story was their ticket to broadway. It can be argued that we are not creating said media articles - but we are collecting them, centralising them and making them a part of a catagory of the site.
I do ask again, what do you feel will be the reaction of those contemporary individuals to discover a wiki devoted to spanking maintains an article on them? It would be highly undesired to say the least. It may even be downright insulting. I don't see in the slightest how my arguments are an advocation of making this site anti-spanking (As I assume you mean to minors in the childrearing sense) - I am trying to point out that almost every other article on this site can be said to be either regarding an individual of note in the spanking domain due to either 1) Active participation (Writing books containing references, writing childrearing books, engaging in consensual activity, involvement in implements and other items), actively creating material through design or 2) Historical Interest. This catagory compiles together a list of - as you say, Victims. An NPOV article merely needs to note that these people exist, (As would for example on sexual abuse. I certainly would NOT be comfortable contributing to a Wiki that indended to compile lists of contemporary sexual abuse victims) it would be a fine reference without naming, focusing on and indeed highlighting them in a manner I would assume they would find upsetting.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by RobM (talkcontribs) 22:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC-5)
Look, as often as I disagree with Rob, I think he has a point. Also, I think you are reading into things about his tone and the implications of a hostile environment quite a bit, rogue. For what it is worth, here's my 2 cents:
Personally, especially for non celebrities (for instance the Klan member who is shown spanking their little boy in an episode of the documentary series by Michael Moore 'TV Nation') Having a record at an obvious fetish site would scare the SHIT out of the parents, and this just seems ... Rude is the best word I can come up with at the moment. Older news stories, concerning minors who are now adults, interviews where spankings are recalled by a now adult, etc, seem valid enough. But talking about people who are still minors strikes me as more than a tad off.
Well, that's my piece, for what it is worth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TimmyTheWiz (talkcontribs) 10:02, 2 July 2009 (UTC-5)
Thanks Roguebfl, RobM and TimmyTheWiz, I see what you mean (although I'm still not comfortable labelling this wiki a "fetish wiki" because that comes with the same biased connotations as "adult wiki" or "BDSM wiki") -- we do have articles on spanking as a sexual thing, a fetish, but we do have articles on spanking as a non-sexual thing just as well, and nowhere in our mission statement do we say that our topic is spanking fetishism. Anyway, I propose that we develop a new guideline for this wiki regarding the issue at hand. I suggest we develop this guideline on a separate page: Spanking Art:Biographical information policy. Please everybody feel invited to contribute to the guideline(s) there, and let's try if we succeed in phrasing them such that everybody is more or less happy. --Spankart (talk) 23:28, 3 July 2009 (BST)

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