Talk:You're Out of Your Mind, Maggie
Would love to do a CG version of that bathing scene. Interesting to note that the Swedes had no problems with nudity, even in a children's movie. Ciao, Blackshade9 10:07, 7 April 2008 (BST)
- Yes, a lot of child nudity in movies comes from Scandinavia, generally in very natural and harmless contexts. The opening scene of Madicken is lovely as the two girls undress and jump around the room naked, having fun. Spankart 19:25, 7 April 2008 (BST
Children think about child nudity as something normal and daily. When I was young, I did not even think that it was child nudity in films like Madicken (Maggie), Ronja Rövardotter etc. It is just normal. For me it is strange that you in america and other countrys are so sensytive about child nudity. What I have understood is it so, in some countrys/places, that even in home, there is very "private" with nudity, and even siblings does not see each other naked. It is very strange to me. Here, nudity is often very open, and my experience is that siblings does not matter seeing eachother naked until about 11-12 years old, or even older. The two naked scenes in Madicken is reflecting a very normal situation in a Swedish family, And the opening scene (not only because of the nudity, but because of the wonderful dialogue etc.) is one of the absolute best scenes I´ve ever seen. Qqll 16:55, 10 April 2008 (BST
- Thanks very much for your comments, Qqll; you've raised some intersting points here. I can remember a time when child nudity was quite acceptable in my country. You didn't see it much on TV, but it was common to see very young children running around naked at the beach or the public swimming pool. Back in those days, people thought it was innocent and beautiful (and like you said, completely natural). In the hottest part of summer, children played naked under the sprinklers; no one thought there was anything wrong with it. Some parents would even take photos or make home movies of their kids 'romping' around in the front yard. I think those old days were much better times: children were allowed to be children. They weren't taught to cover themselves up or feel ashamed of their own bodies.
- I think you're lucky to live in a country where attitudes are so relaxed and open. In my homeland, an elderly grandmother can be arrested for taking photos of her naked grandchild. This shows how paranoid our society has become - in the present day, no one knows the difference between child pornography and Grandma's snapshots. As you said, it is very difficult to understand such attitudes.
- Well, at least Sweden hasn't been infected by this form of cultural hysteria. It's good to know there are still a few countries where good, old-fashioned common sense still reigns. Ciao, Blackshade9 02:27, 11 April 2008 (BST) .
- Well, I mean common sense in that Swedish people (and presumably Swedish law) recognise that there's a clear difference between nudity and pornography. In many English speaking countries, the legal definitions are so broad that court officials have trouble seeing the difference. I'm not familiar with the full details of the 'Mr. KD' case, but I was under the impression that the courts were less concerned with the nudity than with the possibility that a violent act may have been committed against a child. While I disagree with the court's verdict (ie that drawing a spanking picture should be illegal), I totally agree that children should never be subjected to any level of corporal punishment (which is why my drawing references always come from fictitious sources: anime, illustrations, comics, movies or TV scenes - that way, I can be pretty sure that no real child was actually hurt). That's my two cents worth on the subject, anyway. Ciao, Blackshade9 07:28, 11 April 2008 (BST) .
When this article is expanded, it may be worth noting that the author of the original book - Astrid Lindgren - was firmly opposed to corporal punishment, a position reflected in the scene's sympathetic treatment of Madicken. Everyone seems shocked by the headmaster's behavior, even Maddie's homeroom teacher. The effect is similar to the beating scenes in David Copperfield and How Green was my Valley - the audience is left wondering what kind of man would take a stick to a small child, regardless of the circumstances. Ciao, Blackshade9 00:07, 9 April 2008 (BST) .
- Yes. I'm a great admirer of Astrid Lindgren's books and films, and she is also one of the best (in terms of getting her point of view across) anti-cp activists I know. In 1978, Astrid Lindgren received the German Book Trade Peace Prize for her literary contributions. In acceptance, she told the following story.
- “When I was 20 years old, I met an old pastor’s wife who told me that when she was young and had her first child, she didn’t believe in striking children, although spanking kids with a switch pulled from a tree was standard practice at the time. But one day when her son was four or five, he did something that she felt warranted a spanking-the first of his life. And she told him that he would have to go outside and find a switch for her to hit him with. The boy was gone a long time. And when he came back in, he was crying. He said to her, ‘Mama, I couldn’t find a switch, but here’s a rock that you can throw at me.’
- “All of a sudden the mother understood how the situation felt from the child’s point of view; that if my mother wants to hurt me, then it makes no difference what she does it with; she might as well do it with a stone. And the mother took the boy onto her lap and they both cried. Then she laid the rock on a shelf in the kitchen to remind herself forever: never violence. And that is something I think everyone should keep in mind. Because violence begins in the nursery-one can raise children into violence. I think that too often we fail to feel situations from the child’s point of view and that failure leads us to teach our children other than what we think we’re teaching them.” Spankart 22:14, 9 April 2008 (BST)
Wow, That is a really famouse "story" in Sweden- I can here Astrids voice when she reads it... "A stone you can throw on me"... I think I heard it in school or something the first time... Qqll 16:58, 9 April 2008 (BST)
- Yes, I agree that this is an excellent anecdote. Perhaps we might include it in the Anti-spanking article as an example of contemporary opposition to corporal punishment. From what I've read, Astrid Lindgren was a highly influential critic of (all forms of) child abuse, and this particular story perfectly demonstrates the dangers of subjecting minors to physical discipline. For my part, I'm in total agreement with her viewpoint. Ciao, Blackshade9 02:24, 11 April 2008 (BST) .
I can tell that the spanking scene is based on a real-life xperience from Astrid Lindgren herself, were a girl was caned bare-bottom in front of classmates.
/Qqll 19:34, 26 July 2008 (BST) .
- Thanks! Any quotable source? Spankart 08:16, 27 July 2008 (BST)
Well, about 1 and a half year later I have not found the book where I read it, it is an biography og Astrid where she tells that... Still I keep my eyes open... --Qqll 10:41, 6 April 2010 (BST)